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Tom Ronca - 2006-11-10 01:03:14
It's been awhile since I laughed so hard that my spleen had an out-of-body experience, but yes, "Borat" provided me with just such an experience; it had me from the opening credits, which are funnier than the last three SNL-sketch-inspired movies put together. Also, am I the only one who found the soundtrack incredibly catchy? Just me, huh? ...I am...? Ah, well, it must be the gypsy in my soul. But all the same, watch out for those shape-shifting jews...
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Bina - 2006-11-10 06:30:06
I watched Da Ali G show and Ali G Indahouse and hated both. I don't think I would like Borat any more than that either. I'd probably find it racist and unamusing. I guess this means I don't get irony or sarcasm. Or I'm just stupid. I don't know.
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Paula - 2006-11-10 08:48:49
watch out for those shape-shifting jews...
That was my very favorite line in the whole movie.
Bina, the Borat schtick is completely racist and sexist and gross and everything else bad, and it's incredibly funny and insightful at the same time. It's a cliche, but I do believe he is making fun of racism, sexism, etc. more than he is espousing it.
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Tom Ronca - 2006-11-10 10:38:41
Bina (and all other doubters) -- I 'm not particularly a fan of Sacha Cohen's Ali G. character either; it's a bit too one-note for my liking. But "Borat" has to be the best bit of social satire of, well, many things, but primarily Bush's America that I've seen, and I like to think I pay attention to such things. It also has the most skillful interweaving of "reality-based" material and scripted narrative that I've seen in a movie, pretty much ever. And I definitely pay attention to that kind of thing...
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Bina - 2006-11-10 11:02:29
I may give it a try if my brother gets the DVD - I certainly won't - but I'm already seeing people getting called "Borats" because they come from a Muslim/Eastern country and don't speak English too well. Then it's automatically associated that they're sexist, racist, misogynist, homophobic etc. etc. Maybe I'm hypersensitive but stuff like that worries me...
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Tom Ronca - 2006-11-10 12:21:22
Bina -- well, hey, if it's not your cup of tea, don't drink it -- I just wanted to say the movie's not empty-headed; it has a certain merit. And the individuals who made the film certainly can't be held responsible for those who use it for their own (ignorant) ends; quite the contrary, in fact.
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Greg - 2006-11-10 12:43:45
I haven't seen the movie but I have seen the Borat character on cable TV. I think it's a really clever bit--he's got a talent for really dismantling the unaware and exposing their ignorance, racism etc. He's already being sued by two frat boys who are claiming, after spouting some horrific racist nonsense, that they were exploited and misrepresented... my feeling is, if the words were so close to their lips, they've only themselves to blame. There will be those who don't get that the joke is in the response to the character, and not in the character itself. They're hopeless anyway.
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Greg - 2006-11-10 12:48:13
Ali G interviews could be very humorous. It was funny when people, who KNEW they were talking to a character, lost track of that and began addressing him like he was actually Ali G. I've seen the same thing with Muppet interviews and TV appearances
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Erich Kuersten - 2006-11-10 13:32:52
Any time there's something genuinely subversive and played deadpan, it is going to get abused by the idiots of the world. I encountered this myself in college when I wrote a comic for the alternative newspaper wherein our school mascot was portrayed as a sexist frat boy, and I received a huge backlash of feminist criticism... they didn't get that I was satirizing macho codes, not endorsing them. A similar thing can be seen in how the Eddie Murphy Best of SNL suddenly takes out a bunch of the "edgiest" material wherein Murphy plays Buckwheat, etc., as it is suddenly racist rather than satiric of racism.
On the other hand, Spike Lee manages to point out, quite sharply, in BAMBOOZLED how--even when presented as ironic and satirical, stereotypes can be damaging and dehumanizing to all involved.
The bottom line is, this country has become so stupid that it's almost impossible to parody, sort of like the contemporary art world, or Sunance.
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Erich Kuersten - 2006-11-10 13:34:45
Wow, I just noticed how many times I said "stupid" and "idiot" in that post. I dont mean to be too negative, I've been angry lately and I hope it's because I'm on the verge of a spiritual breakthrough and not because i am getting crotchety in my old age.
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Bina - 2006-11-10 14:07:54
So just suppose Sasha Baron Cohen's character weren't a Kazakh Muslim but say an African man from Malawi... or a Hispanic from Mexico... would the reception be as rapturous; would there be as much adulation of his comic genius, or might it just start to feel a little awkward?
Borat's main joke may be to turn the camera on America and showcase the stupidity of that country, but his vehicle for doing so is to use a smaller country and by extension a larger culture that has been taking a beating in the world given recent events. Perhaps I'm the only one uncomfortable with that... for obvious reasons.
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Eli - 2006-11-10 14:32:58
There is something about private people being held up to ridicule without their knowledge or understanding, that I don't find amusing. That's why I don't like the Jerky Boys either. Now we have to watch Matt Lauer pretend to be so cool because he's in on the joke, he GETS IT!, not like those other losers.
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Erich Kuersten - 2006-11-10 14:34:42
You are def. not the only one uncomfortable with that. I live across the street from the theater on 12th and 2nd where Borat plays and the lines have stretched up my street for the last 7 days, all day and into the night... I sense a lot of anger and excess energy from them; it makes me think of some kind of riot about to start.
The whole "ethnic humor" concept has been so sublimated by the PC fundamentalists that this seems like it could be a populist backlash, one that sort of spills out in all directions...
I havent seen the film of course... I will wait for netflix. I thought the Ali G show was a bit mean-spirited.
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Bina - 2006-11-10 14:52:00
British Asians had a lot of problems with Ali G for similar reasons - right now it feels like SBC is flavor of the month but eventually his schtick will get old and people will tire of him. I suppose that's why he's in such a hurry to come out with "Bruno" - someone should tell him that they did that on SNL fourteen years ago with Dieter and Hans and Franz...
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Erich K - 2006-11-10 15:10:18
As far as these SBC loving kids today are concerned, 14 years ago is a time before they even HAD televison.
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Greg - 2006-11-10 15:47:03
>>>So just suppose Sasha Baron Cohen's character weren't a Kazakh Muslim but say an African man from Malawi... or a Hispanic from Mexico<<<
There has never been a supply and demand problem with any kind of ethnic humor, and I've yet to see any group exempted or excluded Not saying that people can't or shouldn't be offended--but I think considering the context... the direction... and intent of the humor is important. I think overall people should worry less about slights of this sort and address economic and social inequities... and no, I don't think they're related.
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Paula - 2006-11-10 16:27:51
Just quickly addressing a couple points:
Eli, one reason I never bothered watching Ali G was for the very reason you cited--I don't like when people are unwitting participants in a joke. Also, I'm not a big fan of mean-spirited humor, and wasn't interested in seeing this, but I was invited as part of a larger social gathering.
Anyway, there was only one moment in the whole movie where I felt bad for the person being ribbed (the dinner scene, and Borat's comment about the pastor's wife--that was hurtful). Most of the folks are just portrayed as kinda goofy. But to see Borat being cussed out by men on a subway car when he leans in to give them a big Kazhastani kiss--well, that's just kinda funny.
So just suppose Sasha Baron Cohen's character weren't a Kazakh Muslim but say an African man from Malawi...would the reception be as rapturous?
Well, "rube" humor is pretty universal and timeless. But the larger issue--is it taking advantage of an anti-Muslim zeitgeist? You know what? Maybe. That's one of those hypotheses that's hard to invstigate when you feel like you already know the answer.
To explore racial/religious/political tensions with humor seems like a legitimate use of people's talents. To pretend that Muslims aren't a little controversial amongst non-Muslims seems about as disingenuous as pretending that 18-year-olds are fighting in Iraq because they are patriotic.
Humor allows us to explore our fears and anger in a safe way, even when it risks perpetuating stereotypes. Sometimes it's all about seeing how stupid these stereotypes are, and hoping that people are smart enough to get that.
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Paula - 2006-11-10 16:42:39
And sometimes, it's about getting in touch with our darker impulses. I mean, there is something weirdly liberating and cathartic about singing along to "Gangsta Gangsta" (I know I'm 20 years behind the times, but I like ta kick it old-skool) which is rankly misogynistic. It's just like, "Eh, they're just words, this is a fantasy. I'm bigger than this."
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Tom Ronca - 2006-11-10 16:59:29
Paula -- Word!
In addition, one thing the Borat charcter has over, let's say, Ali G. (who I find to be aggressively annoying), is that, despite his quite intentional grotesqueness, he is fundamentally innocent, and ergo, likeable -- and therefore not presented purely as an stereotype to hate or even ridicule. I think Amy Sedaris's Jerri Blank character (from "Strangers With Candy") also neatly fits into this role. "Hate-mongering" requires an agenda of directed aggression to really be taken seriously as such, and these characters only agenda (in so far as I can ascertain) is to get us to like them.
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tris mccall - 2006-11-10 23:13:49
no matter how offensive it succeeds in being, "gangsta gangsta" is an awesome lyric and deserves all its props and then some. just because something is evil in intent and execution does not mean it is not also crazy poetic. or funny.
i can't speak for this borat character.
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Bina - 2006-11-11 04:58:22
Paula - truer words never spoken! I suppose that's why Pitbull is one of my guilty pleasures - who can resist singing along to Pulizter-prize winning poetry such as:
Ahora que si, esa jevita esta enterita tiene tremendo CULO!
esta tan linda, esta tan rica, tiene tremendo CULO!
que rica chiquita, pero que importa si tiene tremendo CULO!
Has me el favor y meneate chica tienes tremendo CULO!
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trismccall - 2006-11-11 08:46:25
yeah pitbull is hot as hell. *el mariel* will prove this to the rest of the nation.
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Paula - 2006-11-11 09:13:07
Babelfish says this means:
Now that if, that jevita this enterita has tremendous ASS!
this so pretty, this so rich, have tremendous ASS!
that rich very small, but that matters if it has tremendous ASS!
There are me the favor and meneate small you have tremendous ASS!
I think this song will go over well with both owners and appreciators of tremendous ASSES.
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Greg - 2006-11-11 09:21:19
I think Pitbull has written the official Brooklyn theme song. The new motto, in big letters over the Belt Pkwy at the county line: BROOKLYN: HOME OF THE TREMENDOUS CULO!
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Bina - 2006-11-11 11:51:53
Greg, I think Paula needs a translation of those lyrics.... lol.
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Chris - 2006-11-12 09:25:18
I saw Borat here in London, with a group of 20, that included 4 secular muslims. None seem offended, for many of the reasons listed above. I however was not crazy about the movie. I thought many of the americans came of as well behaved and polite in the face of absurd situations. In particular the dinner party handled themselves very very well. I thought the bear, and the nude fight was worth the price of the ticket.
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2fs - 2006-11-13 00:01:34
I think Cohen's background might be interesting here: he's a Cambridge-educated British Jew of Iranian descent. I can't help but think that he himself has felt on the social outside of situations more than once, and I suspect that resonates in his humor.
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Bina - 2006-11-13 08:39:21
Ok, in the interest of fairness I promise to watch Borat as soon as it comes out here on pirate DVD. Will report back with my feelings and observations on my blog. In the meantime, have a cup of CHAI ... (http://www.twinings.co.uk/SpecialityTea/Aromatics/Chai.html)
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Bina - 2006-11-13 08:40:39
Ok, in the interest of fairness I promise to watch Borat as soon as it comes out here on pirate DVD. Will report back with my feelings and observations on my blog. In the meantime, have a cup of CHAI ... hehe(http://www.twinings.co.uk/SpecialityTea/Aromatics/Chai.html)
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