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iwombat - 2007-05-30 12:02:59
Ties: they are nice, but can be uncomfortable, and were often forced upon us as children, we *had* to get dressed-up to do the stuff we very often didn't particularly like to do, like visiting our stupid relatives, you know, so ties becames like our slave outfit. In the adult world ties are seen somewhat as power wear, but it's about a conferred power, bestowed for going along, being a good boy.
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Janet - 2007-05-30 12:20:19
I agree about suit & tie, but I can only get the hubster to wear same on wedding/Easter/Christmas occasions. Sigh. And B.? As fancy as his tastes run, it's all whine whine whine when it comes to a suit & tie. He enjoys attending weddings much more than does, I suspect, the average 7-year-old, but he'd rather do so in flip-flops. I think iwombat has spoken, well - typed, the truth about kids & ties.

As for PackWorld, certain of your readership will be completely unsurprised that I clicked immediately on the red-bottle story, which turns out to be the caffeinated, guarana-enhanced 70-proof hooch story, which product I now need to figure out whether to scorn or laud.
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Greg - 2007-05-30 12:50:27
Is that the same Dixie Chicken performed by Little Feat on Waiting for Columbus? Love that song. I wore a shirt and tie at least 5 days a week for years (for work) and often on weekends too (because I'm so friggin' cool). I have no problems with it. Never did. Also, this business casual thing is a fashion travesty. The entire world looks like they work in the pro shop at fourth rate golf course. And the third thing--Packaging World is one of our clients here. Amazing what you can write about.
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grigorss - 2007-05-30 12:59:32
Ties -- yes, they can be very uncomfortable -- and they don't do anything; they're a purely decorative part of business attire amd consequently feel like the fashion equivalent of the human appendix.
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Greg - 2007-05-30 13:02:40
Also, re mens' fashion: Sandals with trousers are OUT unless you live in Dubai or the like. Clogs... especially those plastic clogs, should be verboten. Sneakers/tennis shoes/runners/trainers etc. are for playing sports, not going out for the evening. Never wear baseball caps if you're over 16 unless you play professionally. No socks and sandals unless you are over 65 and hail from regions near the Black Sea. Same for plaid bermuda shorts. Oooh the list marches onwards.
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Greg - 2007-05-30 13:04:42
Usually it's not the tie that is uncomfortable... it's the top button. If your neck is say, 17 1/2, buy an 18.
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iwombat - 2007-05-30 14:28:58
Yes, it is the top button. But I believe in socks and sandals, I believe in the utter fashion disregard that it implies, go ahead, call me a rebel!
Actually, I must come clean, really, I just remembered, how in the 6th grade, I wore a jacket and tie to school everyday, Again, rebel.
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Paula - 2007-05-30 14:36:31
I'm not crazy about sandals on anyone, male or female, socked or sockless. Shoes are too beautiful to eschew even in hot weather.
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Bina - 2007-05-30 14:43:56
I could show you some sandals, Paula, that look like works of art... a total necessity where we live.
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Paula - 2007-05-30 14:56:24
It's not so much the sandals themselves as the feet inside them. But of course in relentlessly hot or sandy climates, they'd be somewhat justified.
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chris - 2007-05-30 15:01:32
After 14 years of wearing suit and tie daily, I have changed to a tie free job. Let me tell you, I would take half the pay for the no tie look. I love a suit, its easy, multi-pocketed, and if bought correct fits oh so well. But a tie is so wrong. Forget being first African american president, heres hoping Obama does for the tie what kennedy did for the Hat.
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Bina - 2007-05-30 15:35:54
well, I'm gifted with naturally attractive feet, so I suppose that does make a difference.
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Greg - 2007-05-30 15:57:58
My office now is very casual, but I often wear proper trousers (Death Before Dockers) and a button up shirt and proper shoes. It may be considered odd but it serves the psychological purpose of compartmentalizing my work life and home life.
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Greg - 2007-05-30 16:28:27
UWombat: Wearing socks and sandals in Park Slope actually makes one a conformist, particularly if they are rag wool or very dark in color.
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Paula - 2007-05-30 16:59:33
In all the hubbub, I forgot to mention that I love that photo of Janet and Benjamin--there is clearly a loving connection between you, and you are being mom-like without being overbearing.

The first wedding I ever attended, at age 9-ish (my aunt's Renaissance wedding) was also my first official wearing of pantyhose. I was excited about both. The wedding turned out to be completely unfun for a kid, but the pantyhose part was cool.
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grigorss - 2007-05-30 17:06:23
Paula -- I have to agree with you about the look of sandals (I was vehemently anti-sandal myself for many years) -- but decades of living in climates that I find too hot for my own comfort level changed my mind (at least at the level of comfort, if not style), that sandals have their place; moreso than shorts, or short-sleeved T's, if you're feeling too warm, take off the shoes and socks and put on some sandals -- you'll feel better, trust me.
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amatt - 2007-05-30 17:09:02
I don't enjoy wearing pantyhose. Now wearing makeup is a different story.
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Steve - 2007-05-30 19:31:08
CG Brown's "Dixie Chicken" is the Lowell George/Little Feat song. I don't know if the Dixie Chicks were punning on that song, but it would make sense if they were. I think I might own a couple of ties, but I have no idea where they are. My current job is more casual casual than business casual -- even the suits don't wear suits!
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Greg - 2007-05-30 20:19:18
One of the first formal functions I went to, it may have been a wedding but I don't remember, I had to wear a kilt. No pantyhose though, but neat knee socks.
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2fs - 2007-05-30 20:57:15
Re ties: in addition to the tightness issue, they also get in the way frequently (and I hate that "tuck the bottom of the tie into the shirt" look) and whip one's face on windy days. Precisely because everydamnedbody wears them (when they're required to), I don't think they're at all distinctive. Wear an ascot if you want to be distinctive (not that I do). Frankly I dislike having the top shirt button fastened, even if the neck is perfectly fitted. In general I prefer a looser look; I hate the way shirts (unless you're paying a bloody fortune for them to be fitted...and then you're worried that every passing car or random diner or pigeon or whatever will ruin them on you - plus you can't allow your cat to climb on you while you're wearing them) ride up and down while tucked in. (This might be less of a problem if I lost forty pounds...) I prefer shirts that are cut not to be tucked in. I do try to avoid looking like a golfer, however (or a gopher). Jackets are fine - except the notion that one should wear a jacket, and a tie, and a long-sleeve shirt, becomes a distinctly unpleasant possibility in hotter temps (and I'm aware that our female readers may have it worse, being required to wear pantyhose and other "foundation garments"). If I had more money, and cared about it more, I'd go for stuff that looked very nice, was well-tailored, and was extremely comfortable without evoking the "banker" look. (Incidentally, I think it's hilarious that aside from bankers and lawyers, the people who dress most formally in the US are...TV hosts. That tells you a lot about where a certain kind of authority lies...)
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Greg - 2007-05-30 22:05:03
Gee... I'm a TV host...
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Bina - 2007-05-30 23:49:11
The average Pakistani woman has never seen a pair of pantyhose and probably never will.
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Bob - 2007-05-31 02:02:48
Like Bina, I have pretty (or at least confident) feet, and believe that only feet that have been gnarled by excessive shoe wearing look bad in (nonatrocious) sandals. Bottom line, however, most footwear is a bad look (and thus a faux pas) on non-standing naked people... which most of you are at the moment. Some would say leg strip sandals, platform leg boots, or cowboy boots, on women, are alright in that case, though... and none of those are "shoes". The latter two aren't many people's favorite in the office, though, which leaves leg strip sandals (or whatever they're called) as the only universally acceptable footwear, contrary to Paula's opinion (and even on naked GUYS they might look less silly than the alternatives). On the other hand, I can't think of any NUDE greek statues where they're wearing those fancy sandals. (Or pantyhose... so maybe nothing is universal.)
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Greg - 2007-05-31 05:34:58
In news of the bizarre, the first evidence of men wearing CROCS has turned up in an archaeological excavation on a statue on the island of Mykonos. Professor Armand von Ralflorren of the University of Malodor, in charge of the dig says, "And here we have the first real evidence that poor fashion sense has existed for centuries. And to think we've called this culture 'enlightened!' This is just awful."
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Bina - 2007-05-31 10:12:23
Because of the predominance of sandals in this country, the beauty parlors and salons do a booming business in pedicures. They even do hot wax paraffin treatments to soften the feet, and bleach the feet so that they look pale and pretty. There's a famous story about a man who fell in love with a woman's ankles because that's all he could see of her at the end of her burqa.
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Chris - 2007-05-31 10:26:21
2fs: I agree with everything you said, except, as a banker, your anti-banker rant. Ties are effected with out being original....
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Paula - 2007-05-31 10:56:58
Like Bina, I have pretty (or at least confident) feet

Bob: I am trying to remember if I've ever even seen you in shoes--you are the quintessential flip-flop wearer, and yet somehow manage to pull it off while maintaining an aura of menace.

It's funny you should mention "confident feet"--I wrote a short essay on feet for a yoga magazine (it got rejected), about how once you get deeply into yoga, your feet start to become "intelligent". I.e., they don't just dangle there at the end of your legs, they start to have purpose and intention and a muscular integrity all their own.
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