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Mr Lojban - 2007-10-23 09:21:14
Encouraging apes to paint can be a risky business.
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Paula - 2007-10-23 09:35:41
Ha!! That is quite the eloquent three-panel comic!
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chris - 2007-10-23 11:02:05
Best thing about world series is the rockies catchers name: Yorvit torrealba
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grigorss - 2007-10-23 11:19:09
This is a tangent, perhaps, but there are an awful lot of things about baseball that annoy me -- other than the intense boredom it generates -- chief amongst these being the way in which the sport is mythologized, and regarded as some sort of "holy calling". Instead of representing everything supposedly good about America, I want to throw out the notion that baseball is in fact emblematic of everything rotten about America. I'm not asking anyone out there to accept that as fact -- just entertain it for a moment, as a kind of thought exercise; these kinds of mental calisthenics can be very liberating...
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Philip - 2007-10-23 11:38:38
I like baseball (or I used to, before society crumbled) but I am intrigued by your thought experiment. It might be helpful if you could posit some potential evidence in support of your hypothesis -- "Baseball is emblematic of everything rotten about America because..." And hopefully this evidence would point to what is inherently rotten about baseball, as opposed to simply reflective of its times. (E.G., NOT something like "players are greedy, rich, self-obsessed celebrities," which is clearly representative of deeper cultural collapse.)
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grigorss - 2007-10-23 11:53:36
Oh, any bit of evidence will do --"it encoourages the sale of processed meat products"; "It encourages the submission of the individual to the 'team'"; "The Japanese like it a whole 'lot" -- I mean, Geroge Carlin did a whole routine as to why baseball blows...
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Mr Lojban - 2007-10-23 12:04:45
I am a (perhaps unlikely) freakishly passionate baseball advocate, & hence woefully biased. Still, I think that mythopoesis and sanctification of baseball say more about the mythmaker than about baseball.
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Baby Party - 2007-10-23 12:36:10
I'm not a big sports fan, though I sometimes get sucked in at playoff time - I like the drama. I had an amusing conversation last year with Mr. Party about the Yankees. I asked him why people hate them so much, and he said the team was bought and paid for - built with money. I didn't understand his answer - aren't all sports teams like that, I said? It's a business, right? I wasn't being cynical - I just wasn't clued in to the idea that it's not supposed to be just about the money. I admit, I still don't understand it entirely.
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iwombat - 2007-10-23 12:47:24
OK, I was raised without g-d or b-ball, and never watch it, but, the other night, at the bar, I noticed two unbelievable catches, mentioned to the Jestaplero how they do do some amazing things, it's just the other 4 hours I can't wade through, he said the wait is what makes those moments so fantastic... maybe... I try not to live my life that way... but wasn't Carlin comparing b-ball favorably to f-ball?
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the de-italisier - 2007-10-23 13:10:25
testing, testing
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chris - 2007-10-23 13:25:25
Baby Party: About yankees, yes it is a business. As someone said "routing for the yankees is like routing for Microsoft" Everyone else: Baseball these days is hardly american; as Yorvit Torrealba will tell you, its fairly international. Grigorss: I know you like movies, I know you hate baseball. Just watch the original Bad news bears. That does baseball right. Oh, and your wrong. Baseball is the best thing ever. Ever. Nothing comes close, not movies, not the decline and fall of hitler. Nothing
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Paula - 2007-10-23 13:27:17
; "It encourages the submission of the individual to the 'team'"

That's not a particularly American trait--it flies in the face of rugged individualism.

As for baseball, I remain neutral.

I have had moments of exhilaration watching it, and I have enjoyed minor league games a lot--although mostly for the extraneous hubbub not so much the game itself.

I enjoy watching people get worked up about it--it's intriguing to see how people indentify with teams and players, and how whole teams can take on a "personality" even though the players shift from year to year.

And my limited experience in batting cages has taught me the deep satisfaction of bat-meets-ball.

So, like the band Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, I can see why people like it, even if I am not a big fan myself.
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Paula - 2007-10-23 13:30:37
An obvious point, but isn't American football much more in line with the sterotypes about Americans ?(aggressive, flashy, short attention span inducing, brawn-over-brains, etc.)
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Bob - 2007-10-23 13:30:42
Paula, we had a video store like that, only without the Russian movies, and the best thing about it was that the adult section had a movie that consisted of nothing but trailers from seventies porn flicks. The best was from a movie about a guy with a nine inch tongue, and the trailer was just a sister lounging on a bed, saying to someone out of the frame: "you know, talkin' to you is like jackin' off... it's niiice... but ain't no one to talk to!" You might check for either of those movies, if you're feeling ludicrous. And if you feel yourself getting aroused in the adult section, around the cute Russian, just think of baseball... and he will not be able to turn you out as a spy.... (Sorry, I've been reading "Ultimate Sacrifice", which is the only attempt at responsible journalism regarding the Kennedy assasination that I've ever encountered, and is an interesting window into the cold-war times.)
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chris - 2007-10-23 13:33:00
Paula; yes on football vs baseball. Everyone on this blog will hate him, but as George will said of Football "Football combines the two worst things about America: it is violence punctuated by committee meetings"
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Paula - 2007-10-23 13:39:48
Ha!!
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Erich K - 2007-10-23 13:53:25
I remember getting all into the Philadelphia Phillies circa 1982 (Mike Schmidt, Steve Carlton, et al) in order to bond with my dad who was a huge fan. Imagine my horror when the next season, half the team was traded off to enemy teams and players I had rooted against were no on the Phillies! My dad just cheered away for the Phillies as usual but for me this was a betrayal and I've never forgiven baseball for misleading me into thinking it was important.
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grigorss - 2007-10-23 13:55:24
At least Football (and darn near every other sport) presents its brutal, competitive face openly -- Baseball sugar-coats competition -- it's just a nice friendly game -- leading people to view all competitive events in the same manner - business, wars, etc. -- I prefer the honesty of sports like Football
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chris - 2007-10-23 14:07:19
Grigorss: um, no. Baseball is a competition, it being a game where the winner advances. It does not hide that. Perhaps some movie makers try to distort it, but that as you know is the movie industry. And really, football IS much violent. When you lose in baseball, at least you often maintain your physical well being.
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Erich K - 2007-10-23 14:10:57
there's good sportsmanship in football, too. That's actually my favorite part of it, when you see these guys crunching each other with all this rage, then helping the other guy up afterwards. On that level it's valuable as an example of "joyful participation in the sorrows of existence"
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Steve Carlton - 2007-10-23 15:12:09
George Carlin did a whole routine as to why baseball blows... Do you mean this routine on baseball vs. football, or is there another one where he talks about why baseball blows? George Carlin gets credited for saying a lot of things he never said. I was wondering why my glob traffic is up today, which might be cause I got IHOP'd.
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grigorss - 2007-10-23 15:29:59
That's the one --- when he performs it in front of an audience (at least the performance I saw), the emphasis was on why he prefers Football to baseball.
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tris mccall - 2007-10-23 18:46:00
nah, george carlin loves baseball. he does that routine about how baseball, football & hoops are the only true sports, and everything else is a game or an activity. the baseball vs. football carlin routine isn't meant to privilege one sport over the other. it's supposed to be an examination of two sides of the american psyche: one that's pastoral and values home and safety, and one that's aggressive and warlike. if anything, he's saying that we've changed from a society that values baseball virtues (which he associates with the nineteenth century) to one that digs mechanized and specialized violence. that's consistent with the nostalgic streak that runs through all of his comedy. he thinks we've devolved.
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Chris - 2007-10-23 19:15:11
Tris:exactly. Yet despite its rural orgin (cricket), baseball is really a product of NYC. The first game in Hoboken (the wonderully named Eysian fields in 1846), the first real dominate team, the Brooklyn Excelsiors (Brooklyn Heights).
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grigorss - 2007-10-23 19:49:22
Okay, so maybe Carlin does like baseball -- what do I know about his personal preferences? I was really just trying to be a provocateur today -- anyways, I still find the game insufferably dull.
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Philip - 2007-10-23 21:13:23
Chris reminds me that the original Bad News Bears is probably the best sports movie "in all eternity." (For some reason, an easier category than "rock bio.") In fact, BNB is simply a great movie, one that in its own slobby, off-handed way tells us more about divorce, alcohol, kids, class and the louche underside of Brady Bunch suburbia than a whole host of more strenuously important movies.
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Tom G. - 2007-10-24 00:38:45
Absolutely correct, Philip about BNB. One of those perfect '70's flicks. It just didn't seem like it was trying to be something other than a good movie you know? And grigorss, I used to love baseball and still enjoy watching it, but I completely understand how someone could find it boring. And I agree the mythologizing about it is ridiculous. Bob Costas, George Will, and sorry for stepping on some toes here, Ken Burns have ruined baseball for a lot of people myself included.
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Paula - 2007-10-24 07:56:19
, Ken Burns...ruined baseball

He totally ruined the Civil War, too! That used to be one of my favorite conflicts, but now I can't get the voice of "Mary Chestnut" out of my head.
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chris - 2007-10-24 08:10:06
I agree with Philip on Bad News Bears, and I agree with eveyone on Ken Burns. Perhaps the director of BNB should direct a Civil war movie. Fav detail in BNBs was the teams corporate sponor: Chicos Bail Bonds....
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Jens Carstensen - 2007-10-25 15:27:39
Actually, Ken Burns really ruined jazz, or allowed the Marsalis Brothers do it. Not that they really needed help. .... Oh, since we're on the subject(s): indierockbaseball.com
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