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Chris - 2007-11-14 11:47:42
On the organ issue: I am for it. The present scarcity benefits the wealthy, as limited access generally does. Also it would allow me to turn my children into profit centers....
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Runaway - 2007-11-14 14:25:13
Hello Patti, hello Bob, you're a faux faux faux faux faux faux faux faux folkin' KNOB.
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Paula - 2007-11-14 15:04:19
Indeed!
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grigorss - 2007-11-14 15:05:12
Chris: spoken like a true financier! Although personally, you might want to let the little tykes "ripen" first before you start selling off their organs -- it's a better long-term investment.
Also, while the OLPC project has had its share of problems (like the laptops cost about twice what they originally projected), overall, it seems like a worthy cause -- although my guess is they never expected this as a use to which it would be put.
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GregONomics - 2007-11-14 15:46:28
They could always just trade kidneys for laptops.
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Greg - 2007-11-14 16:36:01
There were a lot of things in Freakonomics that I thought constituted really specious logic, and the writer, whose name escapes me has come up with even more obnoxious correlations since... like increased abortions being tied to a drop in crime. I've never seen such vulgar, indefensible garbage in my life... seriously offensive with seriously offensive and flawed premises.
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Paula - 2007-11-14 17:03:45
I enjoyed the book. I like any thinker who tries to see and explain connections that other people don't see...whether those observations and theories are correct or not. That's how we shake loose the binds of dogma, whether it's religious dogma or scientific.
Interestingly, Greg, you didn't seem this het up about the "Dangerous Ideas" book--and that contained many theories that mined similar territory.
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Paula - 2007-11-14 17:19:42
shake loose the binds
Er, that's "bonds."
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Chris - 2007-11-14 17:27:26
Sorry greg, but I agree with Paula. Freakonomics is some of the most original thinking to address the various issues in a long time. There is no agenda: if the data tells us that a drop in crime is correlated with abortions, that is important to know. You may not like some of the implications, but thats what the data says. The author is someone who goal is to try to strip away the hype on various issues and see what the science says.
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Ro-Man - 2007-11-14 17:45:12
I am in total agreement with the Hu-mans, "Chris" and "Paula" -- in fact, I calculate that if we reduce the present Hu-Man population from 4+ billion to zero (0), there will be a 100% reduction in crime.
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Philip - 2007-11-14 19:13:22
What's the "Dangerous Ideas" book?
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Paula - 2007-11-14 22:28:05
Philip: it was a book I read this past spring, and wrote about, and that post sparked a lively discussion.
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Bina - 2007-11-14 22:47:06
I live in a country which is the top of the list for illegal organ trade. In fact we just passed an Organ Transplantation law which rules out being able to donate your organs for economic gain. Rich people from the Gulf, the UK, and many other places were coming here and pretty much buying kidneys. The donors received money but no follow-up care and have been falling sick like anything. By destroying the health of previously healthy people, just for a short term cash injection, I believe you're doing more harm to the economy in the long run.
I also live in a place where laptops for poor kids have been considered. However all that would happen is that they would break and then go into disuse; be sold for cash or stolen; or just used to pretty much surf porn. You have to look at the environment of a place and its way of living, day-to-day, before deciding to insert a technology which may or may not be useful. It would be as useful as suddenly giving each person a submarine, really.
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Paula - 2007-11-14 23:00:49
You have to look at the environment of a place and its way of living, day-to-day, before deciding to insert a technology which may or may not be useful.
I was wondering when someone would address this, Bina. Not to dismiss this point, but I am making the good-faith assumption that whoever started this program did a cost-benefit analysis first, rather than thrusting laptops on these kids with misplaced missionary zeal...But who knows? I didn't look into it too deeply.
or just used to pretty much surf porn
You say that like it's a bad thing...
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Greg - 2007-11-14 23:43:14
It seemed to me that there was a really grotesque abuse of statistics presented in Freakonomics. The Dangerous Ideas book didn't bother me as much because a lot of it was... philisophical B.S. and not something that cretinous supporters of eugenics could use to further their cruel agendas.
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Greg - 2007-11-14 23:47:20
My recollection of Freakonomics is that a lot of it was an exercise in circular reasoning, however well obscured.
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Bina - 2007-11-15 01:41:39
Given the amount of sexual abuse that these disadvantaged children already face, yes, surfing porn on portable laptops is a bad thing for them.
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Bob - 2007-11-15 03:16:51
Not sure I understand why it is helpful to know that an increase in abortions coincided with one subsequent period in time that experienced a decrease in crime. Seems like putting more money towards proven youth programs instead of the punishment industry may have had a more significant impact in the same period, (just ask cops in a position to know), and without somehow factoring the effect of those fluctuating priorities in, it seems haphazard to rationalize abortion on that basis. (My rationalization is that even excruciating short term pain is a big so what, while dread, misery, and despair intense enough to overcome one's will to survive aren't... but are not the domain of fets.) (The Domain of Fets... there's a title for somethin'....)
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Bob - 2007-11-15 03:27:04
And I agree with Bina that their disadvantage is not so much that they don't have laptops as that Chesters do. And, you just never know who's watching on the net... which I suppose may be why we haven't heard a word out of Bina about what is going on over there this month.
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Bob - 2007-11-15 03:37:04
Oh, and I feel that it indeed would be to MY advantage to have a submarine... but I guess that was kind of her point.
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Bina - 2007-11-15 04:16:41
The best article I have read in this whole crisis is the one by Fareed Zakaria in this week's Newsweek. Odd because the issue of two weeks ago "Pakistan: The Most Dangerous Country on Earth" was as overblown and exaggerated as Zakaria's is realistic and accurate. I am profoundly disturbed by Imran Khan's arrest last night and there continues to be clampdown on the lawyers and human rights activists. Now that we no longer have access to domestic news channels, it's hard to figure out what's happening anywhere, but there is a lot of trouble in the northern areas. Beyond that, I know as little as you do.
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Captain Nemo - 2007-11-15 04:29:17
I feel that it indeed would be to MY advantage to have a submarine...
You and me both...
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Chris - 2007-11-15 09:22:35
Greg. attacking the book as a grotesque use of statistics is just wrong. The papers on which the book is based went through intense statistical vetting. They where reviewed by peers (often Phds in statistics). There is minor disagreements (as there always is with causal statistical relationships), but not grotesque. No one connected to the book would argue we should kill fetuses to stop crime. What they point to is that unwanted children are highly correlated with future criminal activity. That would argue for what Bob wants: more support (Government and family) for poor parents in raising children.
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Paula - 2007-11-15 11:58:21
Bina, I was kidding about the porn surfing...
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Paula - 2007-11-15 12:04:35
Oh, as for the Freakonomics abortion/crime correlation, I interpreted that not as a bid for eugenics, but as pointing out the wisdom of providing women with safe and relatively guilt-free abortions as an alternative to the long-term suffering of having to raise an unwanted child.
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