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Chris - 2008-10-23 18:34:48
Animal porn does not do my vices justice.
The common thread in your suggestions to me was exceptionally strong prose; that may go without saying for books, but you would be suprised how many people can put up with bad writing if the story is interesting....
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Paula - 2008-10-23 19:02:10
That is an astute observation--not just strong prose but dare-devil, look-at-me prose. I don't need a transparent narrator, I'm really ok with ego and pointed humor. Throw a couple of genuine insights in there, and you've made my pantheon.
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chris - 2008-10-23 20:45:07
I was going to say something like that, but in a more negative manner! I like prose that is so strong its not noticed. YOu tend towards writers that love words so much they sometimes end up showing off.
So, any really good animal porn writers out there?
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Paula - 2008-10-23 20:48:47
Annie Dillard comes to mind.
Actually, she did write an essay about weasels that I can almost recite from memory, I've read it so many times.
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Bob - 2008-10-23 22:26:07
Magic realism is like ska;; it's only as awful (or great) as it's practitioners. If you've enjoyed some of Dostoevskeeee (sp?) or Conrad's works, (and after all, given the latter's British Polishness...), then someone who, on the other hand, can perhaps be pigeonholed as a magic realist, Jose Donoso, might do it for you, and I would say is in the same league as a writer as those two.
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MacGregor - 2008-10-23 23:11:43
I believe that spending time attempting to define why one likes what they do, or believes things they do can be one of the most worthwhile pursuits, provided there is always room for exceptions or to be proven entirely wrong. I know I tend towards realism in literature, film and to some extent, music. I know that stems from my own struggle to separate truth from fiction or mythology in my own personal experience. Magical realism largely eludes me, but I really enjoyed what Edgardo Vega Yunque did in his book, The Lamentable Journey of Omaha Bigelow Into The Impenetrable Loisaida Jungle. He parodied (not without deep fondness and love) the propensity for Latin American writers to indulge in magical realism. There is layer upon layer of magic and dream, going as far as having the characters in the story communicating with the author in an AOL chatroom. It was hysterical, especially considering I had interacted with Ed Vega many times in a chatroom before I met him. In any event, yes... realism is generally my thing... except for visual art like painting and sculpture where my brain seems to wander more.
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MacGregor - 2008-10-23 23:15:03
Conrad is a favorite of mine. Fyodor also. And Dos Passos. I read JM Coatzee for the first time a couple years ago and he destroyed me. The narrator in Waiting for the Barbarians... I have no words. I have never read anything more stark and soul-baring. (stark naked?)
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MacGregor - 2008-10-23 23:20:25
Paula--I'm also very much into themes of redemption. It doesn't necessarily have to be a happy ending, and often it's better if it's not. It's often a question of how far one would go for what they believe is right and just. I think more people need to ask themselves just how much they would be willing to give up to make things even just a little more fair. That seems to be one of the very small but underlying currents of this election year. I wish it were more prominent. I wish I had the strength to put myself to the test more before I condemn other people for not doing so.
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Its, that is - 2008-10-23 23:34:03
But if I were Paula - besides first pretending that "I"'d never had anything good to say about Lilly Allen - I would try "A House in the Country" by Donoso, whereas in Chris's case, although I haven't known him since college, (but did recently call a lawyer in Corpus Cristi's husband a Mathematical Lizard in his honor), I would try the more epic (AND animal porn titled) "The Obscene Bird of Night" by Donoso. There does seem to be a connection between the 'evsky and the 'rad and the 'oso though, beyond the fact that some of their stuff is my fave. Conrad the Pole thought Dostoevsky was a perverse Russian "worm", but sure seems like his writing was heavily influenced by his, and it's hard to imagine that Donoso did not read Conrad's "Nostromo", and thus then some, since that was set in Donoso's native Chile. And they were all worldly in their own very individual ways (though that may rule out some of their stuff for Xenophobia, blogster princess...).
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Bob, that is - 2008-10-23 23:39:00
(Wasn't trying to miscorrect Mac's "it's".)
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MacGregor - 2008-10-24 00:02:12
Nostromo is one of my favorite novels of all time. There are few more beautiful and heartbreaking things ever written.
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Chris - 2008-10-24 00:47:46
Thanks for the suggestions. I will say probably my favorite book in this recent fiction splurge was "disgrace" by Coetzee (mentioned in the comments),
I will have to try the bird book. I like my fiction to basically be non-fiction. I don't want characters sprouting extra noses or flying without planes.
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MacGregor - 2008-10-24 01:33:24
Chris--if you haven't read him, I'd suggest reading James Ellroy. He's often lumped into the crime fiction genre but he goes way beyond that. American Tabloid is based around the Kennedy assassination. The number of real people who cameo makes it a lot of fun. Ellroy does tend to be very dark though.
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grigorss - 2008-10-24 03:00:16
I like books with lots of pictures...
It's fine if you paint the pictures with words, if that's what you're good at
... but there should be pictures.
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Bob - 2008-10-24 05:05:04
Chris, now that I at least know that no-faux-nose thing about post-college C. A., I can't say one way or another whether the 'Absurd Bird of Flight' is for you. Definitely smacks more of fever than magic, though... which isn't surprising, since Donoso was in a bad way when writing it. A warning, though: If the rest of the book did not make the first fifty (or something) pages work eventually, they would be a somewhat boring waste of one's time.
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Bob - 2008-10-24 05:12:53
Oh, and it's got nothing to do with boids. "The obscene bird of night" apparently was just a phrase Donoso appreciated that Henry James used in a letter to a son.
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Bina - 2008-10-24 06:07:53
Paula, you should read Irene Nemirovsky. She breaks all your rules about xenophobia (A russian jew who emigrated to France, was killed in Auschwitz), but her writing is so strong and realistic that it's staggering. The translations by Sandra Strong are fantastic.
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Tim W. - 2008-10-24 07:29:36
Coincidentally, I'm in the middle of re-reading Davies' The Rebel Angels. I remembered it (from, yikes, twenty-five years ago) as very well done but with creepy sexual politics; so far that's about right, but the former is outweighing the latter a lot more than it did back then. I will read more by him.
Chris: I like my fiction to basically be non-fiction.
I'm pretty much the opposite--I've been reading science fiction and fantasy since early childhood, and while I love "straight" literature if it's done really well, my favorite books are those that have the best of both worlds, combining wild flights of imagination with beautiful prose and great insight into character. Such as: Robert Aickman, Donald Barthelme, John Crowley, the late great Thomas M. Disch (killed himself this last July 4, the bastard), Carol Emshwiller, Alasdair Gray, Graham Joyce, Rhoda Lerman, Kelly Link, Vladimir Nabokov, Richard Powers, Thomas Pynchon, Gene Wolfe.
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chris - 2008-10-24 12:16:58
I was a science fiction fan early on. I picked up a few recently, and found them to be without humour (or irony). Cant have that. Couple that with my sense of it being a gimmick, and really had trouble. I am sure there are well written, funny, insightful SF books, but I have not found them....
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Chris - 2008-10-24 12:25:11
Tim W: Didn't mean to diss all SF and Fantasy. I will try a few of your suggestions. I have always loved Nabokov, who I thought Paula might like given his wonderful playfull way with words.
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Tim W. - 2008-10-24 15:28:05
Plenty of SF/F is just plain bad (like every other genre); lots more works as SF/F but has little literary crossover appeal. Here are some suggested starting points for those coming from a more literary approach:
John Crowley, Engine Summer and Little, Big;
Thomas M. Disch: 334 and On Wings Of Song;
Kelly Link: Magic For Beginners;
Graham Joyce: The Tooth Fairy;
Carol Emshwiller: The Start Of The End Of It All;
Gene Wolfe: The Fifth Head Of Cerberus.
I've stuck to writers who are explicitly within the genres, but books like Ada and Lanark are often considered to be SF as well.
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