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grigorss - 2009-04-09 17:31:25
I rated Pineapple Express three "*"s on NetFlix. It just points out the whole problem with the 5-star rating system; anything rated 3 *s ends up including a range from "Yes, I thought that was rather good" to "Meh... -- it was okay, I guess". I thought Pineapple Express was pretty standard sketch-comedy-masquerading-as-a-movie stuff, but director David Gordon Green gave it an occasional superlative moment -- and I must admit I found Danny McBride's character hilarious.
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mister muleboy - 2009-04-09 17:47:26
Hmmmmm -- I play the Devil's Advocate more than anyone I've ever met, and that role is central to my character. But I'm [hopefully; perhaps not] as likely to do it for something I'm inclined to support as I am something I disagree with. Strike "hopefully; perhaps not" -- I'm pretty sure that I'm *less* likely to disagree with something, usually keeping *that* view to myself.
~~ The Devil's Advocate is everyone's best friend -- the challenge to any view can only hone and reinforce the good view, and refine and revise the bad.
~~ But I recognize the distinction you draw -- some people won't offer the available countervailing arguments in a quest for the truth, but instead just argue without the conviction to express an opinion. That seems sorta, well, fucked-up, I can't really view it as much more fucked or lame than my silence when I disagree. Both are poor substitutes for honestly saying what you think.
~~ where do you come down on people who don't want to defend their view, or more likely, can't understand the Devil's Advocate, unable to grasp that you can capably argue on behalf of ol' Satan without necessarily endorsing his view. And unable to grasp that you're not doing it hatefully, or to score points, but to test and bolster a peer or mate or friend's argument?
~~ Interesting post. Thankee, PC
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mistermuleboy - 2009-04-09 17:48:45
"less likely to disagree with something I genuinely disagree with" was what I meant to type.
I blame IBM or Windows . . . .
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Paula - 2009-04-09 17:54:13
Tom: the 5-star-rating system is at the heart of a small workplace controversy at the moment, in fact. I agree--and I think that half-points can make a crucial difference.
Mule-o:
I come down on that last scenario positively. I am keen on the idea of seeing all sides of an issue, as a way of revealing the kaleidoscopic nature of perceptions and getting to some kind of larger inclusive (or transcendent) truth. I am all for the devil's advocate!
I have just noticed lately, in my personal experience, that a few of my acquaintances have, ya know, taken the devil's name in vain!
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mistermuleboy - 2009-04-09 18:06:33
~~ Well, as someone who has seen supposedly good-natured arguments somehow go sour [and Odin knows that it's gonna happen if the exchanges are on e-mail, blogs, or elsewhere in the virtuum], some of it recently, I know that the whole area is always volatile.
~~ But what I'm going for is the kind of serenity and self-confidence to know when I'm firm about something, to recognize when I'm right, and to always welcome the disagreement -- no matter what generates it -- because it can either help me to understand that I'm right, modify my views, or understand that there's a bit of information, motivation, or *something* that hasn't adequately been conveyed to the Devil's Advocate.
~~ When I get there, I'll let you know. And I'll share my lottery winnings. And my dead dad and John Lennon will sing a song for us all. ;-)
~~ One last thing -- sometimes I don't want to be argued with, or search for the truth. I just wanna try on my beliefs or feelings and see how they hang, and where I need to let out a seam or take in an inch [less likely]. I can't really expect someone to know that, so I shouldn't be upset when they come at me as the Devil's Advocate. But I can sure as shit be angry if I let them know and they persist. In that case -- off with their heads!
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MacGregor - 2009-04-09 19:20:08
Easily 9 of 10 times that someone has played the devil's advocate with me, it's more a case that A) They have already decided wrong, and B) they're being condescending, like... oh you silly boy, perhaps if I give you a hint you can suss it out on your own, OR C) like you said Paula, they are offering an argument of their own with no real commitment because it's more of an opinion and something they've never bothered to think out.
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