(On some browsers you'll need to refresh this page in order to see the comment you just left.)
Ross - 2004-01-09 15:10:37
Having read only a small sample, including what seemed to be a number of iterations of a single idea, I would agree with what Girard seems to be saying, although he doesn't seem to be saying very much, nor anything too surprising.
That our desires for objects, are created in the social world... interesting, but when he says; "what he believes that this ownership will give to him, as for the Other, in terms of feminine conquests " he admits to an apiori value "femine conquests" .
this can easily be extended to all needs preceeding it; survival, basic comfort , autonomy (freedom)(usually).
So what is left in this social arena are social desires; status, comparative self worth, which is, of course, where they belong. What a frog!
-------------------------------
Paula - 2004-01-09 21:17:01
If I can walk away from a philosopher with one or two good ideas to metabolize (or even just entertain and then thoughtfully reject), then that philosopher has done his/her job and I can respect their work, despite any argument I may have with the 27 other ideas put forth in their books.
With Girard, it's two ideas: that people jes' love to sacrifice other people even if they aren't aware of what they're doing; and that objects and people usually become desireable when other people in your social world desire them. This has serious consequences when our social worlds are incomprehensibly large and interconnected by technology and the media.
I don't believe that either of these phenomena is insurmountable, but that we must be vigilant and flexible and self-searching so these tendencies don't cause mindless destruction.
I also enjoy reading intelligent Biblical investigations by one of the few po-mo philosophers/anthropologists out there who has serious and challenging things to say about religion that don't just boil down to "religion is for morons."
-------------------------------
Bob - 2004-01-10 03:35:27
Hoo-hah; if Islam were more like his take on it, it would certainly be for morons. Jus' cuz Islam - for instance - incorporates Christianity dunt mean it does so out of competitiveness; maybe they liked some of the ideas... and maybe that's why even moderates are sore that we can't see that their radicals' big bugaboo (that some of same can't resist boogalooing with) is western decadence... not Christianity. He'th not very pithy, that guy; maybe they just think, sex aside, that most magazines are pornographic, ya know? Which is kind of stick in the muddy, though not necessarily all wet, but maybe they just consider sticks in the mud more dignified, and just want the best for all... by whatever means necessary. Course whaddo I know; I didn't read that far either. ...But he did make me think "a French Tony Robbins!" at one point, and that's thinking somethinG.
-------------------------------
Paula - 2004-01-10 09:04:09
A French Tony Robbins--boy, if Mr.Show was on the air that'd be a great sketch. Yeah, I hear ya, Bob. I'm sure not saying I agree w/everythng Girard says, I just enjoy his unique p.o.v.
-------------------------------
Paula - 2004-01-10 09:07:42
Also: Girard is like anyone else: he's made his name with a certain philosophy, or schtick, and now he's called upon to defend that philosophy by providing real-life examples.
It's like my dentist, always trying to work the evils of plaque into every conversation. "If Moslems only flossed more, the world would be in better shape."
-------------------------------
Just Me - 2004-01-11 23:23:05
I'm no expert on Islam, but somehow Girard's take on it here seems simplistic and suspect. As for the general idea of "mimetic rivalry," I also see a corresponding phenomenon of "mimetic abjection," whereby *any* qualities of the Other are rejected. I think you see this in the tense, self-policing fervor of, say, the closeted-gay homophobe. Then, I haven't read Girard in full. On another note, one interesting thing about Christianity for me (an atheist) is the way it incorporates exceptions to its own rules (because rules aren't its point), even at its very center (grace is, by definition, undeserved; and it's odd to place strictures against suicide and taking one's death into one's own hands aside the veneration of martyrs and, of course, the Crucifixion). This is neither criticism nor praise; it should be obvious its ramifications are too complex to reduce solely to either.
-------------------------------
Bob - 2004-01-12 04:18:43
I disagree with your dentist's philosophy as well;; Moslem's don't eat as many sweets, (which is why they pass them out when they get excited - aren't they cute?), so flossing isn't as crucial in their case. And to be inclusively discriminatory, I have to object that not "anyone" has a schtick, except for Jewish professionals like Barbara Walters (who instead of insipid can actually be crass and amusing when not "on show", whereas one suspects Diane Sawyers of being genuine in her insipidity), and William Safire, who has taken to making not so veiled fun of his own schtick, (and seems to have a huge hard-on for Hilary Clinton), and was gracious and urbane the only time I saw him on camera, with no hint of the paranoia that he (increasingly tongue-in-cheekly) caters to in his print schtick. So let's not stretch "schtick" out of its cultural, performance-for-the-rubes context, or next we'll be saying O.J.'s "schtick" was stabbing his white ex-, whereas Palm Beacher James Sullivan's "schtick" was paying to have some Clown (if I remember correctly) with flowers shoot his black ex-, in cold blood. Way off the subject, though, which was wronger?
-------------------------------
Paula - 2004-01-12 08:20:13
What do you have against flossing exactly? Studies show it really does prevent cavities and gum disease.
And, yes, I will be more careful with "Schtick," although dictionary.com backs us both up in our usage (and spelling):
Shtick also schtick or shtik ��
(�P�)��Pronunciation Key��(shtk)
n. Slang
1. A characteristic attribute, talent, or trait that is helpful in securing recognition or attention: waiters in tropical attire are part of the restaurant's shtick.
2. An entertainment routine or gimmick.
-------------------------------
Ross - 2004-01-13 13:32:14
I never really knew how to floss, and fortunatly I never did it much, because my dad who didn't know either, flossed for years with a sawing motion, which resulted in deep grooves cut in the bases of his teeth.
-------------------------------
Paula - 2004-01-13 15:18:58
See, Ross? Moslems are evil and mimetic. Mimetitive?
-------------------------------
Bob - 2004-01-13 18:01:10
Who said I myself don't believe in flossing? (Spelling I don't believe in, at least not devoutly.) (Punctuation, however, I do believe in devoutly, and that double semi-colon was an epiphany, as a cure for modern society's disavowal [in the form of fonts wherein ya can barely tell one from a comma]of the precious [or at least semi-precious] semi-colon. In fact, I wish I'd used two of those flimsy ones after "that guy" above.) But doesn't anybody care to answer my supposedly philosophical (but probably just a matter of taste) yet regardless way off topic question of which way of shticking it to one's ex-wife is eviler? (Not that I have any ex-wives or evil aspirations.) After all, it's a simple "this worm or that worm" question, so what my granddaddy didn't used to say about complicated questions doesn't apply: "Don't open that can of worms unless you're a trout."
-------------------------------
Bob - 2004-01-14 02:58:11
Dammit, the colons are just as shoddy
-------------------------------
add your comment:
back to the entry - Diaryland
