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I wombat - 2004-10-06 11:56:37
I've always been interested in psycology, and psycotherapy, and the history of these arts contains many insights, but there is something about the process (which, admittedly, I've never been involved in), apart, I think, from my frugality, that seems too artificial to be fundemantal to well being. The theaputic distance, ( the therapist is not your friend, or familly, is not a person in any social sense) the non-intrisic rewards (the therapist gets paid, you get to be self-involved in a controlled, supportive environment). These things wouldn't seem likely to lead to better intergration our inner and outer selves. Philosophy, yoga, music, art, these are other things that take time, and confront us with ourselves. Time, awareness, not cures, but are we ill, or simply human?
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Baby Party - 2004-10-06 12:44:45
I say, psychotherapy, yea. (But in brief spurts - not with the same person for years and years.) Wombat, the fact that the therapist is not a friend or family member is precisely the point: they do not have a vested interest in keeping you the way you are, or expecting you to conform to their vision of you; you do not have a history with them; and ideally, the therapist serves as a blank slate upon which one can project certain issues, and work them out in a safe space. I think it is a mistake to view therapy in opposition to things like yoga or meditation, hopefully lifelong practices which support daily balance and integration; therapy, in my mind, is a great tool for use during certain difficult times in one's life. I am not currently in therapy, but have seen therapists on three separate occasions for short periods (6 mos to 2 years) and found it very useful. Therapy is not a "cure," its purpose is not to make you "feel better" when you walk out the door each week (like a yoga class) - it's a journey into oneself and one's past, an exercise.
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bad meow - 2004-10-06 12:53:38
Well, I exist on a somewhat extreme end of the spectrum: I was in psychoanalysis (3x/week) for 6 years. I found it indispensable in establishing basic issues of trust, both in oneself and in others; in processing major traumas from the past; in learning how to connect with people in a basic way and moving on with life. I don't think the process is for everyone. Yet something about the intensity of the regimen worked for me. It's the closest I could get to assessing the huge tectonic plates shifting inside myself. Are we ill or simply human? . . . good grief. As a result of psychoanalysis -- not Freudian really, more on an "interpersonal" style, if that matters -- I peer into the void with an even bigger sense of dread. Now of course, I also punch things.
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I wombat - 2004-10-06 13:01:03
Baby Party, I think you are right. I understand how theraputic distance is supposed to work, there's just something about it that gives me the willies, I don't know, call me crazy. If I was gonna type more I certainly would have said, "if it's good for you, do it, if it is part of a path with heart, follow it" I was just being concise, sticking to the rant part of my thinking.
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I wombat - 2004-10-06 13:32:58
bad meow-I also find punching things to be extremely theraputic. Just the other night I broke my headboard, with a nice backhand, just thinking about getting old. I just think a lot of things are unnessarily medicalized, that medicine may not be the best model for a solution to what troubles us, but, pardon me, this is an aesthetic quibble, I don't really know anything about it.
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Paula - 2004-10-06 13:43:40
its purpose is not to make you "feel better" when you walk out the door each week (like a yoga class)
Well said, but the comparison was somewhat facetious on my part, a bit of shorthand. Truthfully I'm not talking about a single yoga class, I more meant a committed study of yoga, which involves meditation, postures, philosophy, ethics, etc. None of these things is designed to be feel-good in a hedonistic sense, but there is a goal: to know your true self and to allow that true self to express through your actions and physical being. Which ultimately does make you feel happier. And I am one of those annoying people who does believe that being happy is a reasonable expectation once basic survival is mastered.
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Paula - 2004-10-06 13:55:31
And to follow up on that thought, I don't get the sense that there's a goal to most therapy (except cognitive therapy, mebbe), or that therapists have any real idea what they're doing. But maybe I've got a bad one.
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Baby Party - 2004-10-06 14:23:00
Wombat, I hate thinking of you hurting your hand like that. Paula, I think that a good therapist always spends time in the first session finding out what you hope to achieve from the therapy, and then periodically, reviewing those goals with you; and most therapists have as their goals helping people to be happy. This has always been my experience. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a therapist is bad, or if one is just experiencing a certain level of resistance to doing the work, but there is no reason to stay with a bad therapist. As for the yoga comparison, I do understand that yoga can be a committed study, stretching over a long period: on the other hand, most people feel good after a yoga class, most of the time, whereas it is entirely possible to have a successful therapy session that leaves one feeling a bit drained, or upset, or discombobulated. I guess what I'm really saying is, it's apples and oranges.
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JohnB - 2004-10-06 14:23:07
Have no personal experience with the practice myself, but I recommend the books by Mark Epstein, M.D. "Going to Pieces Without Falling Apart" and "Thoughts Without a Thinker: Psychotherapy from a Buddhist Perspective". I've seen him lecture about Buddhist psychology, which goes way back in history.....he's written some pieces for Yoga Journal...plus, he's a Fugs fan!
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bad meow - 2004-10-06 14:37:24
It's hard to tell if your therapist is "good" or "bad" when you're the patient. I often felt I spent too much time spinning my wheels, yet in the long run I was helped enormously. Do you have a goal? You don't have to answer here. I didn't have a goal other than not to be a helpless mess. Yet my whole emotional palette ended up changing.
Or, maybe my shrink was a zombie and ate my brain, replacing it with a zombie brain.
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Paula - 2004-10-06 15:51:48
There seems to be an inherent materialism in therapy, too, at least the ol' fashioned kind of therapy...the implication that we're hunks of meat with a bunch of conflicting drives, and the best we can do is keep all the murderous impulses in check. Ovesimplification, of course! But where does the spiritual dimension come in? I think there's more to be gained from seeking a higher truth than in trying to fix parts of you that only seem broken cuz you are looking at them wrong. And now that I've confused everyone, I will get back to work.
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Baby Party - 2004-10-06 17:12:46
But there's hardly anyone practicing "the old fashioned kind of therapy" anymore, if what you mean is classic Freudian psychotherapy. Certainly not your guy, from what you've told me about him. None of the therapists I've ever had. It appears to me that plenty of therapists these days practice in a way that is very much influenced by holistic thinking, or incorporate spirituality into their work. Mr. Jung being the granddaddy of this, of course. (Have you ever read any Jung? If you have not read Memories Dreams and Reflections, do so immediately. It's a readable, moving, inspiring, funny memoir.) The point I really want to make is that it's a very diverse area - there are dozens of different and intertwined schools of thought - I don't think you can throw a stone in NYC withouth hitting a therapist who is not a materialist. Dan and I argue about this every now and then, but I think therapy is an art, not a science.
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I wombat - 2004-10-06 17:37:36
Thanks, Baby Party, I'm not that crazy, I hit it in a soft spot (checking first, with a tentative tap), and I used the soft side of my fist, (more like a karate chop) fairly satisfying. I just cracked it a little.
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Baby Party - 2004-10-06 17:42:59
Well, that's good that you're not hurt. Still, I'm sorry you felt that anger. I don't usually feel anger about getting old, but I do sometimes feel fear. Guess it's the same thing, though.
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off the couch - 2004-10-06 19:46:43
Therapy is good for one type of person: the kind who likes to talk about him/herself. Personally, I got something akin to stage fright every week when I had to sit down and look into the expectant eyes of my therapist, or answer a vague question like "How was your week?" Ironically, I think I would have been much better suited for some kind of journal therapy, since it's easier for me to write about myself than talk. It's meds only for me from now on!
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Bob - 2004-10-07 01:20:04
Therapy does seem to be for city folks, and there may (or may not) be something to this, beyond various facile reasons. That is, it may not simply be that us country mice are simple;; some study recently indicated that exposure to the natural world helps ameliorate the symptoms of ADD, f'rinstance. Course I think I'd probably go bonkers quicker in a plains state that long ago did away with most of its ecology than I would in a metropolis;; at least the latter is some sort of environment. But the right sort of getaway might sometimes amount to better therapy than the right sort of therapist. But getaways are like drugs in that you gotta keep taking 'em, whereas one could always hope that therapy might "fix" one. (And not to veeringly barge into a can of med-worms... but I quite dislike how the drug Prozac stupefies/de-edges some people's personalities, and how it too rarely gets called on this.)
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