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Greg - 2006-11-28 12:58:46
Okay... firstly, does Pupaphobia apply to the Muppets too? And are the Muppets only just real enough to not suffer from the Uncanny Valley phenomenon? I've seen real actors respond to muppet and ventriloquist dummy interviewers on TV and then catch themselves talking as if the puppets were real. And these are just random stray thoughts but is there an overlap here with the anthropomorphosis phenomenon with animal lovers? 2fs--if I have trouble sleeping because I'm pondering all this, can I call you and discuss it?
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Tom Ronca - 2006-11-28 13:12:02
My understanding of "the uncanny valley" phenomenon is that it applies to simulacrums that are very close to reality -- but not quite; as opposed to representations that are vaguely similar, but somehow caricatured or cartoonish (as is the case with the Muppets, or Nick Park's Wallace & Grommit cartoons). Something like the movie "Polar Express" however (which Chris referenced yesterday) is just spooky, however. "I have always found Davey & Goliath creepy beyond words..." Me too. That didn't stop me from buying the DVD however...
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Greg - 2006-11-28 15:13:46
Davey and Goliath--I was a "young adult" before I'd ever seen this. I discovered that similarly to Gumby, it's much less creepy when you've got a headful of psychotropic substances and you're doing a few "just got home bong hits" to take the edge off. Captain Kangaroo was very peaceful under such conditions also.
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Greg - 2006-11-28 18:56:46
I'm still trying to get my head around the Uncanny Valley, and wondering if there might also be an equal and opposite reaction,wherein one might find oneself relating more and feeling empathy with the "human" aspects--the virtual reality. I was thinking specifically of the online communities where people create the avatars etc., and interact. It's like a step beyond the chatroom where people are relating to each other's projections in text.
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Chris - 2006-11-28 21:08:07
About the uncanny valley. I dont find the valley intself that suprising; its a phase transition (from anthropomorhpic to realistic), and those are always messy. Humans in general are put of by the ill and the sick. What has always suprised me is the left side of the graph. Why does the mind want to imagine that the animals it slaughters are cute and have a zest for life?
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Tom Ronca - 2006-11-28 22:24:43
Chris: they are cute and have a zest; we just kill them anyway.
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Greg - 2006-11-29 06:18:52
Okay, I reread the piece and it makes sense to me in certain contexts--i.e. marketing film, games etc. and audience reactions. In regards to prosthetic limbs also--I've read articles on "user rejection" of their own prosthetic devices. It's all worthy of being conscious of but as the Wikipedia entry suggests, it might be wrong to think of it as hard science. In regards to our fuzzy woodlands friends--whether or not they have a zest for life, humans are predatory beasts--and this discussion opens up a different can of worms. Mostly we kill them because they taste good, I think.
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chris - 2006-11-29 07:30:08
I have no problems with us killing animals. I just find it odd that those animals are the objects that we turn into lovable creatures with complex emotions.
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Bina - 2006-11-29 07:40:06
Slow Man by J.M. Coetzee is a really interesting look at a man who loses a leg in a bicycle accident and his life afterwards. It's got some interesting thinking on prosthetic limbs. Although I'm not sure if that has anything to do wtih this topic - I'm just riffing off of what Greg said.
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