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Michael - 2005-12-06 10:59:46
The problem is that we find ourselves thrown in with the occasional truly mean-spirited person in almost any work environment, which has a rippling effect, subtly changing so many interactions between everyone. As far as I can think offhand, we can only try to be as optimistic and honest as we can without laying ourselves open for attack from these people, since hurting others is what gives them their deepest pleasures.
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Paula - 2005-12-06 12:12:00
That's an interesting thought.
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iwombat - 2005-12-06 13:12:16
The positive aspect of telling the truth, is that doing so, assumes trust and respect. Little white lies are often used to simplify, to gloss, to not go into all of the complexities and details that are always under the surface, sometimes that would actually be "too much information" we judge how deep to go in different situations, if I say "fine" in response to "how's everything?" sometimes I'm just sparing my interrogator a degree of detail that I don't think he wants. Sometimes, the whole truth requires a depth of context that I don't want to have to explain. But if the situation shifts, and you realize that you are talking to someone who is, in fact, interested, and may, actually, understand, it behooves us to rise to the occasion and take a chance on the truth.
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Paula - 2005-12-06 13:25:02
The positive aspect of telling the truth, is that doing so, assumes trust and respect.

Yes!
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Flasshe - 2005-12-06 16:00:04
Paula, please give us an example of a white lie you told to get you through the event.... we promise we won't tell.
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Michael - 2005-12-06 16:09:48
It's all too easy for me to imagine what some of them may have been, and to whom they were directed.
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Paula - 2005-12-06 16:14:24
It's all too easy for me to imagine what some of them may have been, and to whom they were directed.

Jeepers, that's ominous! I just mean stuff of the "that sweater is so you" variety.
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Flasshe - 2005-12-06 16:29:56
See, but it's not a white line if you silently complete the thought to yourself: "That sweater is so you, because it hides how overweight you've become."
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krimur - 2005-12-06 17:30:22
And you said all of those nice things to MC - giving me a complex here !!
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Paula - 2005-12-06 17:31:24
Honk! It also gets more complicated in that, for example, I saw a co-worker of mine cornered by a higher-up that I know he can't stand. So I went over and said, "Hey, [Name Redacted for Legal Purposes], can you come here, we've got a question for you!" And then I told him, "I rescued you!"

Oh GOD, no! I think you're the bee's knees, K-rock. Really, truly.
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Tom Ronca - 2005-12-06 23:26:24
I don't think civility is necessarily dishonest and hurtful (although it can certainly be used for that purpose). You can find someone annoying, or even actively dislike them, yet harbor no ill will towards them. That's where the so-called "little white lies" come in -- which are really just another way of letting the person know you mean them no harm. It's profoundly difficult to speak honestly, yet in a negative way, and not have it come off as an attack; unless you know that person very well and have some sort of mutual context in which to place the comments. It certainly seems unlikely that you would know someone you dislike (or even merely have some sort of negative regard for, even if it is only regarding some particular issue, i.e., 'the sweater') well enough to have that context readily available. Hence, 'the little white lie' ...
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2fs - 2005-12-07 11:50:09
It's also true that some people use "I'm just being honest" as cover for cruelty or thoughtlessness (the latter, when they're confronted). Not that one must never ever hurt another's feelings: sometimes it's necessary, I suppose - but malice never is.
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Paula - 2005-12-07 11:59:43
It's also true that some people use "I'm just being honest" as cover for cruelty or thoughtlessness

But obviously I'm not endorsing that. Like I said, the truth rarely hurts.
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chris - 2005-12-07 12:40:14
The fascinating thing is if you study primates (and I know certain people love primates) you find a strong relationship between brain size and optimum social group. The equation puts humans at roughly 150; which is somewhat consistent with other less brain dependent studies. The point is humans can �tell the truth� and assume �trust and respect� with perhaps 150 people max. After that one has to revert to politics and some more complicated set of tools in relationships. White lies are simple; no need to keep a memory of all the ones you have dished out.
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Baby Party - 2005-12-07 13:39:19
Like I said, the truth rarely hurts

So therefore, if it hurts, it's probably not true?

I wish I could say this was my experience, but it's just not. First example that pops to mind: "I don't want to marry you." That was true! And you better believe it hurt like hell! I could share others, but it hurts too much.
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Paula - 2005-12-07 14:15:04
So therefore, if it hurts, it's probably not true?

I didn't say that. But I think if someone tells you something without any malice intended, and you feel hurt by it, there's a chance you're bringing your own story to whatever it is they just said.

Life is full of facts, and most of those facts are neutral. We bring all kinds of meaning, projections, baggage, spin to the facts. Knowing that can help cut through a LOT of pain.

It doesn't guarantee a painless life, and pain is sometimes necessary, but I would stand by the idea that a LOT of emotional pain is self-inflicted and a bit of a waste of time.

"I don't want to marry you", in and of itself, if stated with clarity and compassion, is not a painful statement. It may be painful because there's another statement that you're adding to it, mentally: "You don't want to marry me, so I am unworthy of love and I am being rejected." Also, you're using a pretty out-there example, which only underlines the my original qualifier word "rarely": it's not something you hear everyday. The day-to-day reality of life is pretty neutral.
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Paula - 2005-12-07 14:43:12
And Chris, the thing about the optimum social group is worth looking into. This explains a lot, actually.
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Michael - 2005-12-07 20:28:29
I'll say one thing, Paula: when you ask a question, you get some interesting and thoughtful answers.
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Paula - 2005-12-09 11:16:14
The Socratic method: not just for dead Greeks.
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